Is the link party over?
by gill4kleuren
Community events like the Carnival of Real Estate and the Odysseus Medal are, on the surface, great ways to share new blog posts and highlight great writing from within the real estate blogosphere.
But let’s be honest for a second, the real value to all of these efforts is that they are great linkbait and help generate inbound links to your blog. Here’s how it goes… Publisher sends links out with the posts of the week, authors link back announcing the link post is live, and around and around it goes every week. Everybody boosts their Technorati authority, everybody gets to sip on the Google Juice.
I’ve participated in these to a small degree in the past, but haven’t spent much effort recently. Mostly because I’m lazy and it’s usually late on Sunday night (and past the submission deadlines) before I remember to submit anything.
But I wonder how effective these link parties will be now that Google Declares Jihad On Blog Link Farms. From Techcrunch:
A major Google page rank update has punished large scale blog link farms and similar sites indulging in heavy cross linking by dramatically cutting their Google page rank scores.
Some pretty major blogs were penalized in this latest adjustment of the PageRank algorithm, sites like Engadget and Autoblog. And while this go round was primarily targeting the big blog networks, I wonder how long it is till Google shifts its sights to traffic boosting efforts like the carnivals.
At the very least, it seems to me that bloggers are going to have to be a bit more judicious in their linking behavior moving forward. It seems like Big Brother really is watching.
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28 Comment(s)
2 Trackback(s)
- From Signalling A Retreat From Multi-Author Blogs | Future of Real Estate Marketing | Oct 25, 2007
- From Signaling A Retreat From Multi-Author Blogs | Future of Real Estate Marketing | Oct 26, 2007
Greg Swann | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
You’re reading way too much into this — or perhaps not reading enough. The sites that were penalized were either involved in pay-per-link schemes or were massively cross-linking within their own networks. The Odysseus Medal is not a link-baiting game in the way that blog carnivals are, but the linking activity induced by a blog carnival is miniscule compared to the conduct Google is penalizing. From Google’s point of view, a blog carnival is going to look like organic linking behavior.
Even so, Google has consistently overestimated the importance of weblog content, as compared with canonical static web pages, and it is reasonable to expect this to be adjusted over time.
Incredible Agent | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
Joel, I agree. Google has shrouded linking with mysticism and it’s becoming difficult for people to understand the difference between a good link and a bad link. Google wants linking to become a time and money killer…and it has.
Metrowest MA Real Estate | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
Joel – I think Greg makes a good point. This type of linking is organic in nature and does not represent the massive link schemes that have become so prevalent. Too much of what everyone reads on this subject is just speculation anyways.
Joel Burslem | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
@Greg – For sure. This recent action was focused on knocking down the most egregious examples of cross-linking. All I’m suggesting is that it looks like Google is starting to tighten up its definition of a “good link” and that bloggers should be aware of that and perhaps be a bit more judicious in their use of links. Carnivals and medals may fall into the “good link” category for now, but maybe not forever. If it’s really all about the content anyway, why don’t we put a rel=”nofollow” tag on all carnival and medal links?
Maybe this is just a way for them to dial down the importance of some of the bigger blogs. And I agree with you, good content will continue to rise to the top. – if you’re writing good content (and earning those links) none of this matters anyway.
@MetroWest – Yup. Idle speculation. I’d be the first to admit I don’t understand all the complexities of Google’s algorithm but it’s interesting nonetheless.
Dustin | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
Joel:
I just noticed that your homepage (http://www.futureofrealestatemarketing.com/) has a PR of 3. This is lower than I would have expected… Did it drop in this latest round?
I know RCG dropped from a PR of 6 to a PR of 5 a while back, but I don’t see any change from this latest update.
Drew Meyers | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
Joel-
The carnival or real estate is aimed at surfacing great content from around the RE.net — it’s a community, not a link party. I’ve met many, many interesting bloggers through the carnival that I might not have otherwise come across. Further, I find a new blog that I like almost every edition of the CoRE.
The carnival has purposely have steered AWAY from being a “link party.” On the Guidelines to hosting a carnival, it says “Pick the 10-20 posts that you deem to be the best. Most likely, you’ll be excluding some posts- that’s okay!”
http://www.carnivalofrealestate.com/guidelines-to-hosting-a-carnival/2006/10/
andrew | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
This is just speculation. Means nothing. I have a really good friend at G who works on the Index. I was just on IM with him and I quote: “These bloggers talking about the PR update are not as smart as they would like to be perceived as. In fact, they are all wrong. We are all laughing at todays speculation. They need to pay attention to their sites and not what we are doing.”
Joel Burslem | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
@Dustin – Yeah, saw that. Depending on the datacenter (using http://www.wirank.com) when I checked today its a 3 or a 5. Might be a hiccup – who knows. At the end of the day I don’t sweat my PageRank much, so I’m not too worried about it.
Joel Burslem | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
@andrew.
See #4. Yup. Idle speculation over morning coffee.
Your friend’s right…My focus with this blog has never been on building links or my PageRank – just writing what’s on my mind. Maybe why I rarely got off my ass to submit my posts to any of these events. If people like what I have to say, they’ll link to it. If they think it’s garbage, they won’t.
Joel Burslem | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
@Drew – I don’t disagree that the Carnival helps surface great content. I’ve found good posts there too.
But surely you see the collateral benefit to the publisher and contributors to having a bunch of links coming in and going out every week.
Like I said, if it’s truely about the content, let’s put rel=”nofollow” tag on all the links going forward. Seems fair to me.
David G from Zillow.com | Oct 24, 2007 | Reply
Joel –
Think this through; link farms massively cross-link to the same pages repetitively. Initiatives like the Carnival never do – they link to different content every week; i.e. blog posts. Google will not have no problem telling them apart.
Todd Carpenter | Oct 25, 2007 | Reply
Next, I hope they come down on keyword stuffed blog posts.
Mark Pilatowski | Oct 25, 2007 | Reply
The thing is the blogs were not penalized. They just had a toolbar PR drop. The drop could be for a variety of reasons such as an across the board PR devaluation for all sites, manual intervention, algorithm change, or another way for Google to spread their FUD to link buyers and sellers. The fact is that Google can’t detect paid links. Sure they can usually find TLA and some other broker links but the one to one link buys and under the radar stuff is going to be their nemesis for a long time. Google can lower toolbar PR (while not hurting their SERP rankings) to these well known blogs for their paid links or cross linking schemes with the knowledge that they will talk about it. More people will hear about it and some will be scared enough to stop buying and selling links. It may not have a huge effect but it will stop some people. This post is an example. The carnivals are legitimate linkbait methods (and Matt Cutts has stated that linkbait is a proper way to attract links) but the FUD being spread by this recent drop has created enough nervousness to force everyone to reconsider their link building strategies.
Tom at The Real Estate Bloggers | Oct 25, 2007 | Reply
Wow
When a post on SEO brings out all the big boys of blogging, you know it has to be good.
Face it, we are all dependent on Google for traffic in one way or the other, it is the 500 pound gorilla. And most of the blogs that got hit with the reduction are playing in the SEO and optimization game, whether they call themselves internet marketing sites or blogging tutorial sites.
Once a few of them got devalued they all took a hit because the sites are cross linked in the same pool. Think of it as Google’s shot across the bow to the internet marketing community reminding them who is the big dog.
But the real issue is not the page rank widget, it is the traffic that is sent and ranking for ones terms. If you have a good diversity of links and are maintaining your traffic, what difference does page rank mean besides bragging rights.
Look again at the people Google messed with and then answer the question, it will explain alot.
Mark Pilatowski | Oct 25, 2007 | Reply
Tom, the thing is that these reductions were purely cosmetic. These sites did not lose any rankings or traffic. Heck, most of them get most of their traffic from sources other than Google anyway. That’s why I tend to believe that it is either an across the board reduction in TBPR that will be felt by most sites eventually. This would be due to the fact that there are more sites on the web so a current PR3=Previous PR5. Or it is Google saying we will get you if you try to game our engine with link schemes. Hard to say right now but if they really wanted to penalize these sites they would downgrade their ranking positions to decrease their traffic. Of course that is a double edged sword because it would decrease Google’s relevance and drive away users. I mean if I am looking for Gadget blogs I want to find the best there is and there are not many better than Engadget. That is where Google runs into problems. If they worry too much about penalizing sites they end up ruining their results because the most relevant sites can’t be found. If they allow them to get away with whatever they want their guidelines become meaningless.
Joseph Ferrara.sellsius | Oct 25, 2007 | Reply
IMO, link baiting in the blog community is for the purpose of raising one’s Technorati ranking– Page Rank is a bit more complicated & harder to game. From my understanding, Technorati is basically a simple link counter and is easily gamed by the link baiting you describe. That’s why there was such an outcry (including from G. Swan) over the 2000 Blogger project. It upset their status in the link hierarchy scheme. You would think links were gold. (Perhaps some would pass them as currency)
In my book, links are not a measure of worth– they measure popularity– and in many cases, an artificial one, since many new blogs will link to established blogs thinking it’s the thing to do. The danger comes from parading your T-links to readers as “authority”. (Why else would you put it on your blog?). It perpetuates the myth of links being a reliable standard of value. As we all know, there are blogs lacking link lineage which are better written, more informative and insightful than many of the linked up blogs out there.
All that being said, I oppose none of it– link bait, self promote, tattoo your Technorati ranking on your chest.
Justin Smith | Oct 25, 2007 | Reply
I think there is a good argument here to dump your blogroll… most of time a blogroll simply translates into a reciprocal linking party, and I suppose could be characterized by Google as a link farm if there was enough of it happening.
Any SEO guy will tell you that excessive cross linking is not a good thing… but I do agree with Greg that to be penalized, you would have to do it on a pretty large scale. I don’t think something on the scale of CORE would make any difference at all. What I usually tell my students is that: as a general rule, you shouldn’t look to crosslink intentionally with anyone, but just let it happen naturally… because it is bound to happen at some point anyway.
Greg Swann | Oct 26, 2007 | Reply
ProBlogger. Temporary, like Achilles.
Carson Coots | Oct 26, 2007 | Reply
I say, just create good content and link where you want to link. This will change again and again. If you feel that you would like your visitors to access your favorite sources, then make a link. Lets get back to the basics of life. Why would Google penalize a function (the blogroll) that wordpress comes standard with… use it and forget Google. What goes around will come around. Google has human editors too.
Cleve | Oct 30, 2007 | Reply
Exactly right Carson. If it is good content, the traffic will find you. That is the true beauty of Google.
“Google’s mission is to organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful.
Just put it out there.
Real Estate Video Dude | Nov 13, 2007 | Reply
I have always believed that as long as you are doing the right thing and building links to help get traffic and not rankings then I would be fine. I don’t participate in any ’schemes’. I focus on getting quality content on my site and quality links from sites that would be happy to have a link based on my content.
As Carson said, “just create good content and link where you want to link”
Jani | Jan 8, 2008 | Reply
Might be hard for Google to separate good links from bads. There is a lot of grey area on this
Kansas City | Jan 10, 2008 | Reply
Today’s “rules” may not apply tommorow and what gets a site in trouble today could turn to gold later. I believe this is far from an accident and that G wants us to stay motivated and cutting edge – yet restrained. SEO’s a dance, and we learn as we go…
Clydee | Feb 13, 2008 | Reply
There’s Blogroll link parties and then there’s comment link parties.. take this comment for instance – No substance, just a link to a blog (cleverly disguised as a website) so get some linkback love!
regards
realvisionhomes
Clemmons Homes for Sale | Dec 1, 2009 | Reply
Clydee, you stole my line. But ditto!
We know Google’s algorithms are constantly changing, so as Kansas City said, “we learn as we go.”
I plan to continue posting links, where I think the content is relevant, and adding quality content to build traffic to my sites. Build it and they will come.
Real Estate | Feb 2, 2010 | Reply
I think the link party isn’t over yet.
Real Estate Living | Feb 3, 2010 | Reply
Hideous as it is, Link party is now in camouflage mode known as “blogroll”.
Jacci- Austin TX Homes for Sale | Feb 4, 2010 | Reply
We have no other choice then to learn as we go, the seo road we are on hasn’t been paved for long.